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View Full Version : POLL: What is the best Nintendo system of ALL TIME?!



ChocoMint
10-05-2009, 08:33 PM
For those of you who don't know, Nintendo actually started out operating a love hotel in Japan in the early 30s! But in the early 80s, they got the genius idea to create video games and consoles, and the rest is history. There have been many releases in the past, so, which one is your best? Vote for your favorite!

For me, it has to be the Gameboy. I adore my Wii and DSi very much, but the Gameboy brings back so many memories for me, especially since it was my very first video game system. It also brought me back to the days of the NES, before my time (yes, I backplayed them), and it just has a lot of nostalgia with me.

May the best system win!

Oh, and make sure you specify which system you voted for, and why :thumbleft:

PharaohsVizier
10-05-2009, 08:34 PM
N64 for sure. I can see why the Gameboy or DS would be voted, but the N64 takes the crown. The transition from 2D to 3D in that time period was really quite mind blowing.

ChocoMint
10-05-2009, 08:38 PM
N64 for sure. I can see why the Gameboy or DS would be voted, but the N64 takes the crown. The transition from 2D to 3D in that time period was really quite mind blowing.

I can understand that vote...to be honest, I think the N64 will win. The only reason I didn't vote for it is because the Gameboy will always have a special place in my heart...otherwise, my second vote is the N64

Jakob15
10-05-2009, 08:58 PM
N64 for sure. I can see why the Gameboy or DS would be voted, but the N64 takes the crown. The transition from 2D to 3D in that time period was really quite mind blowing.
+1
But the DS is my vote for the easiest system to run backups on.

benjaminlibl
10-05-2009, 09:13 PM
Personally, I chose GBA.

Maybe it wasn't especially revolutionary or extraordinary, but it was the second portable console I owned, and I just have so much more memories of playing my GBA than playing Gameboy.

DeltaBurnt
10-05-2009, 09:39 PM
I was born with an N64 controller in my hand.

So yah I vote for N64, so many awesome games.

ChocoMint
10-05-2009, 10:55 PM
Wow, I'm suprised no one voted for the NES, I guess we have either no older gamers here, or no retro gamers, lol

This is what I personally thought would win:
1. N64
2. NES
3. Very close for the rest of it

For those who haven't voted, please do!

Shadz
10-06-2009, 01:23 AM
SNES, purely for the hours of bomberman spent playing, as well as the ability to play my Gameboy games on the big screen.

Jakob15
10-06-2009, 06:55 PM
Actually I vote for NIntendo Wii it could emulate all those system Lmao.

DeltaBurnt
10-06-2009, 07:20 PM
DeltaBurnt: Yah I think the Nintendo 64 was the best because

Kanye West: Excuse me DeltaBurnt, I know you're making your speech right now and I'll let you finish later BUT the NES was one of the best Nintendo systems of ALL TIME.

(The title of this topic reminded me of this xD)

jincongz
10-06-2009, 07:20 PM
Honestly? PSP. It can run DS, and all the ones but Wii. But if it HAS to be Nintendo, my Wii. I'm still not over the Wii jokes. (Any hawt gals wanna come over to play with my Wii?)

ChocoMint
10-06-2009, 09:38 PM
DeltaBurnt: Yah I think the Nintendo 64 was the best because

Kanye West: Excuse me DeltaBurnt, I know you're making your speech right now and I'll let you finish later BUT the NES was one of the best Nintendo systems of ALL TIME.

(The title of this topic reminded me of this xD)

ROFL

I got a really funny one:

King Lionas: THIS
IS

Kanye West: Excuse me king, I know you're making your speech right now and I'll let you finish later BUT Chuck Norris delivered one of the best kicks of ALL...

<Lionas reaches for his sword and cuts off Kanye's head>

I actually have a vid of it... should I put it in my signature?

briankealing
10-09-2009, 05:17 PM
I have to say, the DSLite is the most impressive Nintendo system I have had.

It had the specs.
It had the aesthetics.
It had wifi.
It was portable.

* Kisses my DS Lite *

Shadz
10-09-2009, 07:40 PM
Emulating games sorta takes the fun out of it...in terms of reduced FPS, ability to cheat...etc...

As for you Wii fanboys out there, go play your high graphics call of duty...OHWAIT...

Wii is horrible, with only a few decent games to its name, yes I'm starting a flame war, but this is fact, not opinion, compared to other systems, it is shut down. Playstation3/Xbox360 and even their former consoles Playstation2/Xbox can better them in terms of graphics, gameplay and replayability. Many of the PS/X games are released on Wii, but are a huge downgrade in almost everything, and you know what? I can even run Wii games off my PC, thats how simple it is, it really needs a huge upgrade, you will be lucky to see alot of sales come 2011, when the 'wii2' or whatever it will be named is released...alongside the Playstation4.

It will be interesting, fanboys v quality...

Jakob15
10-09-2009, 07:44 PM
Emulating games sorta takes the fun out of it...in terms of reduced FPS, ability to cheat...etc...

As for you Wii fanboys out there, go play your high graphics call of duty...OHWAIT...

Wii is horrible, with only a few decent games to its name, yes I'm starting a flame war, but this is fact, not opinion, compared to other systems, it is shut down. Playstation3/Xbox360 and even their former consoles Playstation2/Xbox can better them in terms of graphics, gameplay and replayability. Many of the PS/X games are released on Wii, but are a huge downgrade in almost everything, and you know what? I can even run Wii games off my PC, thats how simple it is, it really needs a huge upgrade, you will be lucky to see alot of sales come 2011, when the 'wii2' or whatever it will be named is released...alongside the Playstation4.

It will be interesting, fanboys v quality...

+1. The only thing I like about the Wii is the Wii channel, Wiiwares, Internet Browser, Super Smash Bros, and those sport games.

PharaohsVizier
10-09-2009, 07:56 PM
This is an interesting discussion. Well I had a Wii and I had a PS3, and now I only have a PS3, get the picture? :P The Wii isn't a horrible console at all in my opinion. I think it is just aimed at a different crowd.

I host parties once in a while and notice that the Wii got a LOT more attention while the PS3 is really rotting. Yes there are 2 or 3 people that play the PS3, but there's like a crowd around the Wii. Point being, if I have parties more often, I'd probably have kept the Wii, but since I don't, I'm keeping the PS3, since I LOVE COD4 (sadly I sold it, waiting for COD4-2). That's my two cents.

benjaminlibl
10-09-2009, 07:59 PM
Wii is horrible, in terms of graphics, gameplay and replayability.
This may be true, Shadz, but it's a moot point. The purpose of the Wii was not to have great graphics. If it did, it wouldn't be any different from consoles such as the XBOX 360 or the PS3. It was to introduce a new concept, which I think it did rather well, actually. I got bored of it, but it was fun when I first got it.

Also Shadz, I don't think Wii games are as horrible as you make them out to be. Probably, the reason why you dislike them so much is because they cater to a different audience or age group. Like.. the Imagine series on DS. Most people just call it shovelware and leave it at that, but there ARE little girls out there who actually like play those games.

Shadz
10-09-2009, 08:39 PM
I think the whole concept of the wii is wrong to be honest. I, as I'm sure many others, would rather just use buttons to control a character, the idea of waving my arms around my head constantly to make him jump is ridiculous. Not only that, it's sometimes inaccurate and you look like a right fool!!

The games are horrible, compare something that came out on both PS3/Wii

Call of duty: World at War

Aim buy using the wiimote and a nunchuck, or aim using a joypad. The joypad is easier.

The graphics on the wii, horrible compared to PS3...

Sound, not even worth mentioning.

Multiplayer, so much better on the PS3, the community is larger and its more fun.

I've played a wii with surround sound before and not much impact was made, but playing PS3 (cod5) with surround sound, my dad rang home and asked if a war was happening, he heard it through a phone, when I was in another room. SS amplified cod to another whole gaming experience, something lacking on the wii.

There are maybe 10 decent wii games, right now, all I can think of is wii sports, mario kart, mario party, smash bros brawl, mario and sonic, guitar hero (which can be played anywhere nowadays), resident evil 4 (same thing)...but thats all I can think of tbh...

DeltaBurnt
10-09-2009, 08:54 PM
Emulating games sorta takes the fun out of it...in terms of reduced FPS, ability to cheat...etc...

As for you Wii fanboys out there, go play your high graphics call of duty...OHWAIT...

Wii is horrible, with only a few decent games to its name, yes I'm starting a flame war, but this is fact, not opinion, compared to other systems, it is shut down. Playstation3/Xbox360 and even their former consoles Playstation2/Xbox can better them in terms of graphics, gameplay and replayability. Many of the PS/X games are released on Wii, but are a huge downgrade in almost everything, and you know what? I can even run Wii games off my PC, thats how simple it is, it really needs a huge upgrade, you will be lucky to see alot of sales come 2011, when the 'wii2' or whatever it will be named is released...alongside the Playstation4.

It will be interesting, fanboys v quality...

Ugh you're one of them. The type of people who plague my school and call themselves gamers. Those people who would vote each new Madden, Halo, and Call of Duty games the new game of the year. The people who just yell GRAFICKS OMG it almost sounds like their throat will bleed.

The wii is a fantastic console in my own opinion. Although it does get alot of shovel ware and it's not the best on graphics it has a very huge collection of games so fantastic they make me cry. Games I could play for hours with my friends. The wii is a step up from the Playstation and Xbox 360 in my opinion because it doesn't revolve around just graphics (although it does have some games that do have very good visuals even though it's low on horse power). In my opinion the Xbox and Playstation are doomed to be plagued with the same old crap over and over just with better and better graphics. Take Halo, it's just the same old crap. Call of Duty, same old crap. Madden too!? Yep you guessed it. There's also "new and intuitive" games that apparently no one has ever though of before like maybe Prototype and inFamous, those were already actually done in many other ways. Wait what about Gears of War and Resistance!? Those are awesome right!? Wrong they're just shooters mainly pointed at the same crowd that is in my school. I also have a problem with Gears of War mainly, it's just a game where you control an overly weighted, muscle head, gun loving, hairy man killing aliens.

Most of the people who claims the Wii sucks just because of it's graphics I see as the same as the main hero in Gears of War just they don't kill aliens. They scream "OMG IT HAZ GUNS AND BLOOD, I MUST HAVE IT DAWGZ". They call RPGs gay and the only thing they have in common with US is our love for rockband.

Also the "Lolololol look at how crappy Call of Duty looks lololololol" is crappy remark because you obviously fail to notice that Nintendo and the wii had nothing to do with how the people who handled CoD for the wii and if they were more efficient with the wii's power they could have made it look better. We also never asked for it in the first place.

Further more you say that the other consoles best the wii in gameplay and replayability? Hah, the Wii has so much replayability it will make your head spin. My family and I have played Wii Sports and Wii Sports Resort so much we're surprised the disc isn't broken or worn out already. Oh and the Wii is definitely more powerful than the PS2, the PS2 would not be able to handle Super Mario Galaxy.

One last note, Sony's online is slow, Xbox's online you have to pay for, the Wii's online is free and goes decently fast.



BTW this isn't a flame war just the mere stating of facts :P

Shadz
10-09-2009, 10:22 PM
PC > all

PharaohsVizier
10-09-2009, 10:24 PM
No need to attack each other, this is a friendly discussion :bounce:

benjaminlibl
10-09-2009, 10:30 PM
PV, I didn't really see any attacking going on.

PharaohsVizier
10-09-2009, 10:47 PM
Read DeltaBurnt's opening paragraph.

ChocoMint
10-09-2009, 11:00 PM
Must every topic I make become controversial? These topics, especially the ones I create in the Anything Else section, are, for the most part, supposed to be fun...lets treat them that way. Kindly, no more arguing...

benjaminlibl
10-09-2009, 11:08 PM
Read DeltaBurnt's opening paragraph.
Haha, never mind.


Must every topic I make become controversial? These topics, especially the ones I create in the Anything Else section, are, for the most part, supposed to be fun...lets treat them that way. Kindly, no more arguing...
Well, know this.. If everyone agrees with everyone, there wouldn't exist a need for forums.

ChocoMint
10-09-2009, 11:11 PM
I know, benjamin, but forums like this are usually supposed to be for people to ask questions, get answers, and converse about flashcarts and other things in the Anything Else header. Not about arguing about irrelevant and obscure topics with a violent tone.

PharaohsVizier
10-09-2009, 11:33 PM
Naw its fine, DeltaBurnt's post is perfectly acceptable, if it wasn't I would have edited it out. I was merely stating that it is getting to that borderline, and that people should watch for it.

BACK to the discussion:
I agree with DeltaBurnt's point. The Wii TRIED something new instead of upgrading the graphics. As a result, it is normal to see some failures and some successes. I think the Wii is doing rather well for such a bold move. There's no doubt there is some utter crap on the Wii, but you can see that if the Wii is done properly it has great potential. I mean I thought Resident Evil 4 was one of the most impressive games on the Wii, well you can argue graphically and even the gameplay was available on the previous generation, and yet I feel it is a much superior game on the Wii.

Now I have to say that it doesn't work for everything. I felt Zelda TP was sort of butchered on the console. Well butchered perhaps isn't the right way to say it, but tacked on and unimpressive is more along the right lines.

Anyways the Wii certainly isn't perfect, which is why I gave mine up, but it is far from the unimpressive piece of junk you seem to be alluding to.

ChocoMint
10-09-2009, 11:59 PM
I heard that a new Wii is due out by 2011, and come to think of it, that's not too far away... maybe I will create a thread later detailing this, I have an article to show for it as well

Hopefully it'll fix issues with the current Wii, I heard it has stronger hardware and can play Blu-Ray, and the transformation from the Wii to the Wii 2 (tentative name) is comparable to the change from the Gameboy to the Gameboy Advance, so hopefully we'll see some big changes

Again, all speculations, I'll research it later, and post what I find in a thread

DeltaBurnt
10-10-2009, 12:02 AM
I heard that a new Wii is due out by 2011, and come to think of it, that's not too far away... maybe I will create a thread later detailing this, I have an article to show for it as well

Hopefully it'll fix issues with the current Wii, I heard it has stronger hardware and can play Blu-Ray, and the transformation from the Wii to the Wii 2 (tentative name) is comparable to the change from the Gameboy to the Gameboy Advance, so hopefully we'll see some big changes

Again, all speculations, I'll research it later, and post what I find in a thread

I would seriously not believe any of those rumors until I see a straight up statement from Nintendo.

Shadz
10-10-2009, 12:53 AM
I already stated about the Wii-2 (now I think it's getting called WiiHD) in my post above, check it.

Also:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://gamer.blorge.com/2008/07/30/nintendo-developing-wii-2-as-profits-hit-1-billion-in-three-months/">http://gamer.blorge.com/2008/07/30/nint ... ee-months/</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://gamer.blorge.com/2008/10/01/wii-2-on-way-by-2011-evidence-of-nintendo-developing-wii-hd/">http://gamer.blorge.com/2008/10/01/wii- ... ng-wii-hd/</a><!-- m -->

Order of consoles in superiority:

PC - Always most compatible, functional and powerful
PS3
Xbox 360
PSP
PS2
Xbox
Wii
DS

I seriously think that the PS2 and Xbox are better than the Wii, in terms of everything....

Nintendo tried something new with the wii, and as PV said, it was a swing and a miss, they tried something and it failed abysmally. They need a new system, like the N64, but more powerful. That was a revolutionary console, the wii and the gamecube did a half-assed job at staying competitive. Think..there has always been competition.

Originally it was PSONE and N64, then it was PS2 and Xbox, and the gamecube wasn't really that great, even now it is X360 and PS3, with the Wii being undermined on various sites.

Just another thought, there is a lot of criticism for the wii, but nowhere near as much as PS2/3 or Xbox/360.

And I really don't see how you can call me a fanboy, when I don't own any of the newest consoles, but simply am currently reasonably happy with my beastly computer and ps2, I simply come from an un-biased environment and gave you the facts of the matter, and yes, I like graphics, I don't want to play a game that is horribly pixelated, I want something that is near life-like, look at games like Far Cry, Crysis, Resident Evil 5, the graphics are brilliant, but you know what else is? The gameplay, the multiplayer, the customisability. These console games are amazing, the effort that was put into them. Whereas the wii can only churn out semi-decent games frequently, and occasionally a great one. The wii is a 1-character console pretty much, they need something new. Like I said, Nintendo 65 would be great. Re-make those games, expand the series, and now I'm at the stage where I'm getting repetitive...so Shadz out.

DeltaBurnt
10-10-2009, 10:56 AM
I already stated about the Wii-2 (now I think it's getting called WiiHD) in my post above, check it.

Also:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://gamer.blorge.com/2008/07/30/nintendo-developing-wii-2-as-profits-hit-1-billion-in-three-months/">http://gamer.blorge.com/2008/07/30/nint ... ee-months/</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://gamer.blorge.com/2008/10/01/wii-2-on-way-by-2011-evidence-of-nintendo-developing-wii-hd/">http://gamer.blorge.com/2008/10/01/wii- ... ng-wii-hd/</a><!-- m -->

Order of consoles in superiority:

PC - Always most compatible, functional and powerful
PS3
Xbox 360
PSP
PS2
Xbox
Wii
DS

I seriously think that the PS2 and Xbox are better than the Wii, in terms of everything....

Nintendo tried something new with the wii, and as PV said, it was a swing and a miss, they tried something and it failed abysmally. They need a new system, like the N64, but more powerful. That was a revolutionary console, the wii and the gamecube did a half-assed job at staying competitive. Think..there has always been competition.

Originally it was PSONE and N64, then it was PS2 and Xbox, and the gamecube wasn't really that great, even now it is X360 and PS3, with the Wii being undermined on various sites.

Just another thought, there is a lot of criticism for the wii, but nowhere near as much as PS2/3 or Xbox/360.

And I really don't see how you can call me a fanboy, when I don't own any of the newest consoles, but simply am currently reasonably happy with my beastly computer and ps2, I simply come from an un-biased environment and gave you the facts of the matter, and yes, I like graphics, I don't want to play a game that is horribly pixelated, I want something that is near life-like, look at games like Far Cry, Crysis, Resident Evil 5, the graphics are brilliant, but you know what else is? The gameplay, the multiplayer, the customisability. These console games are amazing, the effort that was put into them. Whereas the wii can only churn out semi-decent games frequently, and occasionally a great one. The wii is a 1-character console pretty much, they need something new. Like I said, Nintendo 65 would be great. Re-make those games, expand the series, and now I'm at the stage where I'm getting repetitive...so Shadz out.

PV never said the Wii was a swing and a miss he just said it had some failures. Also if you think the Xbox and PS2 are so much better than the wii then give some details as to why.

The only reason there's so much chriticism on the wii is because people like you who think graphics are everything and only base the console on that. None of the games on the wii are pixelated, in fact the graphics on the wii are pretty good (even better than the PS2 or Xbox like I said in my last post). The only reason some games look bad on the wii to you is because you're comparing them to games on the PS3 or Xbox.

If you really think the wii is a 1 character console then you must really have something wrong with your brain. Unless you have no idea what the wii is and the games that are on it I'd really have to say you're just making up stuff at this point. The wii has twice as many games that are party and co-op games than the other consoles. Seriously how could you possibly think that the wii is a 1 character console?!

Oh and I never called you a fanboy, just one of those people who think "graphics and muscle head gun controlled games are the bestzorz!1!!1!!11!!".

Shadz
10-10-2009, 05:50 PM
PV never said the Wii was a swing and a miss he just said it had some failures. Also if you think the Xbox and PS2 are so much better than the wii then give some details as to why.


Better games, better compatability, better multiplayer, better graphics/sound, better contolability, MORE games. In order of controlling a character I would go mouse/keyboard -> Controller -> Waving arms like a noob.




The only reason there's so much chriticism on the wii is because people like you who think graphics are everything and only base the console on that. None of the games on the wii are pixelated, in fact the graphics on the wii are pretty good (even better than the PS2 or Xbox like I said in my last post). The only reason some games look bad on the wii to you is because you're comparing them to games on the PS3 or Xbox.


Firstly....its criticism*

Secondly, I don't think graphics are everything, I just enjoy being able to play a game which is near lifelike, and not just a blur (until december last year, I ran CSS on lowest settings at map fps of 30, horrible) but now I can run almost all games on max settings for around 100+ FPS. Yeah, I do compare the wii graphics to PS3 and Xbox360, that is because they are the primary competition, and you know where they lose?? TO PC!! Really, I don't criticize everything with bad graphics, right now I'm playing Kingdom Hearts 358/2 days on DS, for the DS, the graphics are AMAZING. Compared to everything else, its not that great. But it's not really in competition with anything else (except the PSP), but compared to it, the graphics are semi-decent, the gameplay and story is good, controls are simple and easy to understand. This is the same for most DS games, they don't involve me randomly waving my hands around, although do involve sometimes yelling =/. Nevertheless, I only said the wii was lacking graphic power when it is compared to the PS3/360 which is what SHOULD be happening, as they are the consoles in direction competition. I would compare it to PC but there is no point, as it is obviously superior to all 3.



If you really think the wii is a 1 character console then you must really have something wrong with your brain. Unless you have no idea what the wii is and the games that are on it I'd really have to say you're just making up stuff at this point. The wii has twice as many games that are party and co-op games than the other consoles. Seriously how could you possibly think that the wii is a 1 character console?!


1-Character console as in all the decent games are based around Mario. They tried hitting up Link and Sonic, and they failed. Sonic the Hedgehog was horrible, from what i've heard the camera was bad, the gameplay and controls were annoying and the story failed. Twilight princess was more of a 'lets just get a Legend of Zelda for Wii on the market ASAP' and as a result, they buggered up, how do we know this? WHICH GAME DO PEOPLE USE FOR SOFTMODDING WIIS!

I don't mean 1-character as in only 1 person can play, how could you even interpret it as that? There is a distinct difference between 1-player and 1-character. For example, Halo, is a 1-character game, wanna take a guess at who that is?




Oh and I never called you a fanboy, just one of those people who think "graphics and muscle head gun controlled games are the bestzorz!1!!1!!11!!".

You called me 'one of them' which is good enough to be classified as a fanboy. I think graphics are good, as does any person with half a brain. Do you want to go around playing a game in black and white with a resolution of 800x600 when its at MAX SETTINGS? No. Graphics enhance the gameplay to give a better feel to it, which I, as a gamer, want. Some of my favourite games, CSS, Battle for middle earth, had ok'ish graphics, but you know what, THE GAMEPLAY WAS GOOD, and the graphics they used enhanced my experience of the game. It gave it a more realistic feeling, well...as much as you can get out of running around controlling 500 elves and shooting light arrows at giant dragons and elephants...


Anyways, I think I refuted everything you said, and just to point out...Wanna guess which game got game of the year 2009?? Modern Warfare-2

PharaohsVizier
10-10-2009, 07:24 PM
Let's fuel the argument here a little to make things fun :P

Point #1: I don't think you can say distinctly that the keyboard and mouse is greater than the controller which is greater than the Wii remote. Now I understand that you said controlling a character, but let's face it, there are lots of games that don't involve controlling a character, and even that term in itself is rather vague. I feel there are pros and cons for each type, the mouse and keyboard will always be the best method of controlling an RTS game in my opinion, while the Wii proved that it can do shooters rather well (although there have been TERRIBLE controls too, cough, Metroid, cough, and obviously it hasn't been refined like the mouse and keyboard). To say that motion control is simply "waving your arms like a noob" is pretty critical. I mean I have to admit that there are many, piles and piles of failures, but there are a few good games, which is good enough for me. To me, controllers vary, you pick which genre you like and you pick what control method you like. And the Wii is a pretty good proof of concept more than anything.

Point #2: The Wii lacks graphics, there is no way to deny that. It is interesting that you pointed out that the DS's graphics are acceptable, while the Wii isn't. I find it a bit hypocritical that you can simply ignore the graphics on the PSP and say the DS is acceptable (since we know the PSP's graphics are superior to that of the DS), but you cannot ignore the fact that the Wii is in competition with the PS3 and XBOX360.

As a gamer myself, realistic graphics are great, I'm not going to pull one of those stupid "graphics aren't everything in a game, gameplay is" sort of arguments because I think they are dumb. But you have to acknowledge that the Wii ISN'T in direct competition with the PS3 and the XBOX360. I'd say if anything the DS and PSP are geared towards the same crowd more so that the Wii and its competitors. Let's look at the demographics, the Wii is clearly not aimed at the hardcore players (despite what Nintendo claims). Which is why I think your comment is sort of odd. Now obviously that doesn't pardon the Wii for its graphical incapabilities, I would love to see a Nintendo Wii kick out more horsepower.

Point #3: 1-character console isn't really a problem is it? Sure it is a little sick that they are milking Mario to the last drop, but he reaches so many genres that it really doesn't make a difference. They have Mario Strikers, Smash Brothers, Super Mario Galaxy, etc, all good games. Does it really matter if Mario's face is put on them? Not to mention that it is far from fair to say that Mario is the only character on the console. Link, Samus, Donkey Kong, these are all big characters that also have great games tied to them. It's like saying the XBOX is a 1 character console because Halo has several versions, and Master Chief is an overwhelmingly popular character.

I also disagree with Zelda being "buggered up". It wasn't as good as I hoped, but the controls weren't horrible, just not the sword wielding awesomeness that everyone was expecting. Honestly if the game didn't have a Gamecube counterpart, no one would have really said anything, the quality of the game was high, the gameplay was fun, and overall enjoyable. The point about soft-modding Wii's, I really hope that is a joke because it is far from fair.

Point #4: Game of the year I think 2008 was it, Super Mario Galaxy. Either way you interpret this, agree or disagree, it wrecks your point about Modern Warfare 2. If you disagree (like I do), then you are acknowledging that Game of the Year means absolutely nothing, and is really quite biased. If you agree, then you also have to acknowledge that the Wii has some good games.




Adding to my own views: The Wii has a few good games (perhaps you can argue with that), I can probably name 10-15 off the top of my head that I would PAY money for. Now, how many people go out and buy more than 10-15 games (let's exclude piracy). For my PS3, I think I only have 9. Honestly, the strengths of the Wii is in the fact that most of the games are pick up and play, easy to learn, etc. Perhaps I may have more fun with COD4 on my PS3 alone, but at any sort of gatherings, I'd rather have a copy of Rayman Raving Rabbids than to have to explain to someone how the dual analogs work for a shooter.

Shadz
10-11-2009, 12:20 AM
Sigh, make my life difficult...

The reason I say mouse/keyboard is so easy, is that it's fluent and easy to learn. Generally, WASD to move, mouse1/mouse2 for primary and secondary actions. Aiming is easy, moving around is easy, even communication is easy, (I use mouse3 for my mic button in all games). Its just so fluent and easy to grasp. Controller on the other hand, the aiming is a bit more difficult, taking into account an FPS (Cod). When playing Cod on a console (with a controller) it is alot harder to aim with, even sniping, to get a headshot requires precision, as well as a simple touch, but with a mouse, it easy and quick to just move your right (or left) hand a smidge, if you overshoot, its even easier to go back. Then there is wii, I have played FPS games on a wii, and aiming is just horribad. Its painful to line up perfectly as well as when trying to steady it can be quite jumpy, and this isn't just for me, for other people I see playing it as well.

Wii's graphics..yes...this point...well I did say the DS was in competition with the PSP, which the PSP does have astonishing graphics, the DS games aren't trying too hard, the quality is clear in some games (I'm using Kirby now) and precise. I see the graphics of Kirby for DS to be quite good, for its system. It handles nicely, it fits in, its well suited. Kingdom Hearts for DS, pushed the DS to the boundaries, and there are some definite flaws, look at character hands and robes, but aside from that, they are quite good. Think back even to the Metroid cutscenes, they were SPECTACULAR. Same with....Valkyrie Profile, that has good graphics (cutscenes and gameplay wise). Wii on the other hand, I just don't think its doing its best, it probably could have better graphics, but I don't think they are fulling utilising it...

Point 3...lemme just read it again quickly....

Ok, 1-character console. Firstly, I agree, xbox is based off master chief. And if you look on Gamespots 'greatest game hero ever' Master Chief got booted in the final round. The grand final is gordon freeman v Mario. Freeman is winning, and probably will. So Master Chief has been abandoned by all his loyal Halo fanboys who didn't sleep for the month that each game was released. Back to Mario. Nintendo have milked him for way too long, and they still are!! What was just released?? MARIO AND SONIC AT THE OLYMPIC WINTER GAMES. Come on, seriously Nintendo? Its the exact same game just with slightly altered events. Even sonic is getting old. Sonic was always, and should have stayed, a 2d side scroller, by going 3D they ruined him. Mario games are good, some of the wii ones are definitely fun, but the thing is, 80% of the good wii games feature Mario, they are completely reliant on him. That's the point im trying to make, most of the games that feature other characters, as you say Donkey Kong/Link, they failed. Donkey Kong drums...wow, that's fun. FAIL. Twilight Princess, didn't get a great review, it had issues, but somewhat...an ok of a game.

Point 4#, Im only saying cod5 is game of the year, because I had gone to EB games about 10 minutes earlier and saw that, it's not even what I am looking forward to the most. What I want MOST OF ALL, Is left 4 dead 2. I've been fapping over this game, calmly awaiting its release, it looks great, and I loved L4D. Not only this, but theres Assassins Creed 2, Natural Selection 2, Modern Warfare-2 and probably some others. I think there is a TF2 update coming soon as well :/.

Your new point, yes, there are a few wii games that I would go buy, but more for consoles. I would list a few, but since im generally not that interested in PS3/X360 yet, I won't bother. For PC, I listed a few above, but there are still plenty I want, resident evil 5, Champions Online, Heroes of Newerth, League of Legends, Company of Heroes, all games I really want.

Your turn :D

Thanks for the fuel, I actually enjoy having this discussion =/

Also, why do I seem to be the only person trying to shut down wii.....??

Also Also, I agree with wii being a party console, it gets the attention. WHY? It's simple maths.

Parties = alcohol
alcohol = everything becomes fun
alcohol + waving arms around and jumping up and down = fun = Wii
therefore parties = wii

DeltaBurnt
10-11-2009, 01:01 AM
I would post another increasingly bigger post but I'm too tired right now. Spent most the day filming crap for my project and still didn't finish.

Point is graphics are good but they are a necessity. People will like the console they have if you don't like another console ignore what other people when they talk about it.

ChocoMint
10-11-2009, 01:17 AM
Lol, I guess it is my turn to jump into this. And, I will tackle it in a very policy-debate oriented fashion. So, I shall begin with my first "Speech" in defense of the Wii.

1. Graphics aren't everything. To prove my point, imagine playing a game that looks as clear as real life, but the library is so small you can count it on one hand. How popular would that system be? Not so much. That said, if there is a system with 8 bit graphics released in this day and age, and has a library of over a thousand excellent games, that system won't be as popular either, as the gamer won't enjoy the experience. The key is to have a balance, and that is what the Wii has. Sure, it doesn't have the best graphics, but what it has gets the job done. Look at games such as Super Mario Galaxy and Kolona - absolutely beautiful. Graphics doesn't rely so much in the system as the game - the system has the capacity, but the developers have to take full advantage of it. The Wii's slight lack of graphics isn't always entirely the fault of the Wii, rather that the developers choose not to take full advantage of it.

2. You can't deny the Wii's library of games. It is immense, and it has something for almost everyone. Sure, it might not have as many M rated games as the PS3 or Xbox360, but think of the Wii's audience. It is targeted to people ages 5-15 and 30-up. It can also be targeted to 16-29 year olds not looking for the best FPS game out there. The Wii is just meant to be fun. Games such as Super Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart Wii, and Super Smash Brothers Brawl all prove this, and all were huge successes. And, the Wii is a party console as well, proven also by it's name - when asked to explain the name of its newest console, Nintendo responded: "The two i's are supposed to represent two people standing and playing togeather." That is completely opposite of the DSi, which only has one "i", signifying its emphasis that the DSi is a personal console. Back to the gaming library - if one is looking for mature titles on the Wii, you can find Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, Madworld, and a few others, but i'm too tired to list them now...

There's more, but I'm tired and it's late now, so I might or might not edit this post later. For now, Choco out.

Shadz
10-11-2009, 01:40 AM
1. Graphics aren't everything. To prove my point, imagine playing a game that looks as clear as real life, but the library is so small you can count it on one hand. How popular would that system be? Not so much. That said, if there is a system with 8 bit graphics released in this day and age, and has a library of over a thousand excellent games, that system won't be as popular either, as the gamer won't enjoy the experience. The key is to have a balance, and that is what the Wii has. Sure, it doesn't have the best graphics, but what it has gets the job done. Look at games such as Super Mario Galaxy and Kolona - absolutely beautiful. Graphics doesn't rely so much in the system as the game - the system has the capacity, but the developers have to take full advantage of it. The Wii's slight lack of graphics isn't always entirely the fault of the Wii, rather that the developers choose not to take full advantage of it.


Most new games have both graphics, gameplay and playability. Wii doesn't. That was easy....




2. You can't deny the Wii's library of games. It is immense, and it has something for almost everyone. Sure, it might not have as many M rated games as the PS3 or Xbox360, but think of the Wii's audience. It is targeted to people ages 5-15 and 30-up. It can also be targeted to 16-29 year olds not looking for the best FPS game out there. The Wii is just meant to be fun. Games such as Super Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart Wii, and Super Smash Brothers Brawl all prove this, and all were huge successes. And, the Wii is a party console as well, proven also by it's name - when asked to explain the name of its newest console, Nintendo responded: "The two i's are supposed to represent two people standing and playing togeather." That is completely opposite of the DSi, which only has one "i", signifying its emphasis that the DSi is a personal console. Back to the gaming library - if one is looking for mature titles on the Wii, you can find Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, Madworld, and a few others, but i'm too tired to list them now...


Yes I can, and I will, in very few words. 1000 crappy games or 10 good games. I'd take the latter. Wii has lots of crappy games, but fewer good ones. Other consoles? Lots of good games, few crappy ones.

Wow, I only had to read the first line to refute that entire paragraph.

Btw, ratings mean crap all.

PharaohsVizier
10-11-2009, 03:21 AM
Yes I enjoy these discussions as well, at least the constructive ones. It's nice to have a legitimate conversation.

Now back to the discussion:

I'm curious as to know which FPS games you played on the Wii. I too found the controls for a few to be awkward to simply horrible. I mean I'm going to rag on Metroid again, the controls were so bad that it made me dizzy. I haven't experienced that on ANY other console before, so I'm not one of those guys that get dizzy playing CS or something. The saddest part is that I think (if memory serves me right) the best "FPS" controls on the Wii I've seen was in Wii Play. Again I thought Resident Evil 4 was exceptionally well done as well.

That being said, I can completely understand your sentiments for saying the mouse and keyboard is intuitive and easy to learn. But I think the issue here is the style or genre of games you play. I don't think you can quite pull off something like Mario Party on the computer with the keyboard and mouse as efficiently as on the Wii remote.

Fair enough, lots of games don't push the Wii to its knees. And it is disappointing for me too.

Ugggg, yes I'm watching Gamespot's competition, and I can't believe Link lost to Gordon Freeman. :( And hey I take a lot of pride in that Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games game! The city hosting that Olympic event is my hometown. I would have been extremely bummed if they took the time to make one for Beijing but not Vancouver.

Anyways, I kind of see the point that Nintendo is relying on Mario way too much, but I don't really see it as a problem at all. Again the games span several genres, are completely different, and are only connected by Mario. It's a trademark more than anything and people seem to love it (errr, asides from you I guess). It's like saying Nintendo is stamping all their games with their Nintendo logo, it's not really a problem.

As for Twilight Princess not getting a great review, that was I believe Gamespot only. The majority of internet reviews were very happy with the game. So I wouldn't say that is is "an ok of a game", I think it is disappointment rather than failure. I expected a lot out of the game, but didn't sort of get the awesomeness I was expecting and spent weeks thinking well that was sort of.... regular. But now that I think back to it, the game was pretty good, above average definitely, perhaps not the Zelda-finish I'd like, but still pretty good.

I can't wait for L4D2 as well! :) Errr but I don't see how that sort of answers point 4. :P

Errrr I think you are the only one trying to shut down the Wii on this forum. It's kind of odd, normally people who like the DS (which I assume is why you are on this forum) generally side with the Wii as well, which is probably why you are getting so much resistance.

LOL I love the math thing. But then again, I'm rather Asian, and hanging out with Asians, at least the ones around me means that we don't have alcohol. Again I'd attribute it more to the fact that they are pick up and play. I just went out with a bunch of people and they all whipped out their DS's. Sure we could have played Metroid or something, but we ended up playing Tetris because it is something everyone knows how to play or takes 3 seconds to explain. I suppose if you are in a tight knit group where everyone plays the same, you'd be happier playing something more complex.

Shadz
10-11-2009, 03:37 AM
This makes my job easy, not much to dispose of here...

Where the Wii chose to implement a wiimote for games like Mario Party and Mario Kart, I would have been more happy with the use of a controller. It is just fortunate that the MK allows controller use, i've tried using a wiimote (with and without steering wheel) and its horrible!! I even recall playing tony hawks downhill jam or whatever it was (with an 8 ball on the front) and using the wiimote was EXTREMELY BAD. They made it more difficult than it needed to be basically, use of a 'classic' controller or GC controller would be much better. Even for Smash Bros. Brawl, I find the wiimote or wiimote/nunchuck to be infuriating and harder to pull off the combo's i can do with ease through the controller. How i miss the days of Sega, with the d-pad and 2 buttons, that was good, that was simple. One button jumped, one attacked, or in the case of Sonic, both buttons jumped =/. What I'm saying, is the wii makes things too complex, there is no need for motion sensitivity when you can press LEFT on a controller to go left, or tilt your arms left, and realise that the battery on your wiimote died.

NEW REASON TO HATE WIIMOTES. THEY NEED BATTERIES. That was the main reason I ditched my old mouse/keyboard. Wireless = bad. I dont like wireless controllers, guitars for guitar hero, mice or keyboards. Batteries = bad. Wired = better, not only that, its more responsive because it has less interference from other radio waves.

Wow...that was point 1 :s

Gamespot...yes, My grand final was Mario and Sonic, with Sonic winning. Very disappointed to see Link eliminated, but Freeman cheated. There was a message on steam saying, "GORDON NEEDS YOU!" and had a giant link to it, and that might happen again, so GG Mario...

Ok, I forgot about FPS controlling. Played cod5 on wii, played re4 on wii and played archery on M and S at olympic games, and I see people struggling to get the bullseye where they want it. Its unresponsive, you want it to go left and it goes to far, you move it right and it goes left more. It just doesn't want to work.

Back to the other point now.

Of course you would love tetris, it is simple, but i don't like it.. I prefer tetris attack, where highly fast fingers are rewarded. Im not saying tetris doesnt need that, it does, just not as fast. You really only have to continually stack blocks in a corner and leave a single line of space to win, I just end up buggering up. Tetris is fun, I just dont like it....

Your move :D

benjaminlibl
10-11-2009, 06:43 AM
Lol, I guess it is my turn to jump into this. And, I will tackle it in a very policy-debate oriented fashion. So, I shall begin with my first "Speech" in defense of the Wii.

1. Graphics aren't everything. To prove my point, imagine playing a game that looks as clear as real life, but the library is so small you can count it on one hand. How popular would that system be? Not so much. That said, if there is a system with 8 bit graphics released in this day and age, and has a library of over a thousand excellent games, that system won't be as popular either, as the gamer won't enjoy the experience. The key is to have a balance, and that is what the Wii has. Sure, it doesn't have the best graphics, but what it has gets the job done. Look at games such as Super Mario Galaxy and Kolona - absolutely beautiful. Graphics doesn't rely so much in the system as the game - the system has the capacity, but the developers have to take full advantage of it. The Wii's slight lack of graphics isn't always entirely the fault of the Wii, rather that the developers choose not to take full advantage of it.
I agree, at least partly.

The Wii will never ever be able to produce great graphics. It's just not made for it. However, it doesn't have terrible graphics. At least I never get the feeling that it's laggy. You can't say the same for XBOX 360 though. There are games with great graphics, but sometimes it slows down just a tiny bit and it isn't nearly as enjoyable as it should be.



2. You can't deny the Wii's library of games. It is immense, and it has something for almost everyone. Sure, it might not have as many M rated games as the PS3 or Xbox360, but think of the Wii's audience. It is targeted to people ages 5-15 and 30-up. It can also be targeted to 16-29 year olds not looking for the best FPS game out there. The Wii is just meant to be fun. Games such as Super Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart Wii, and Super Smash Brothers Brawl all prove this, and all were huge successes. And, the Wii is a party console as well, proven also by it's name - when asked to explain the name of its newest console, Nintendo responded: "The two i's are supposed to represent two people standing and playing togeather." That is completely opposite of the DSi, which only has one "i", signifying its emphasis that the DSi is a personal console. Back to the gaming library - if one is looking for mature titles on the Wii, you can find Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, Madworld, and a few others, but i'm too tired to list them now...

There's more, but I'm tired and it's late now, so I might or might not edit this post later. For now, Choco out.


Yes I can, and I will, in very few words. 1000 crappy games or 10 good games. I'd take the latter. Wii has lots of crappy games, but fewer good ones. Other consoles? Lots of good games, few crappy ones.

Wow, I only had to read the first line to refute that entire paragraph.

Btw, ratings mean crap all.
But Shadz, what is crappy to you may not be to the rest of the world. It may be 1000 crappy games in your opinion, but perhaps others get a kick out of that kind of stuff.


This makes my job easy, not much to dispose of here...

Where the Wii chose to implement a wiimote for games like Mario Party and Mario Kart, I would have been more happy with the use of a controller. It is just fortunate that the MK allows controller use, i've tried using a wiimote (with and without steering wheel) and its horrible!! I even recall playing tony hawks downhill jam or whatever it was (with an 8 ball on the front) and using the wiimote was EXTREMELY BAD. They made it more difficult than it needed to be basically, use of a 'classic' controller or GC controller would be much better. Even for Smash Bros. Brawl, I find the wiimote or wiimote/nunchuck to be infuriating and harder to pull off the combo's i can do with ease through the controller. How i miss the days of Sega, with the d-pad and 2 buttons, that was good, that was simple. One button jumped, one attacked, or in the case of Sonic, both buttons jumped =/. What I'm saying, is the wii makes things too complex, there is no need for motion sensitivity when you can press LEFT on a controller to go left, or tilt your arms left, and realise that the battery on your wiimote died.
Shadz, I think it all boils down to a matter of preference, really. When I'm playing SSBB, I choose to use the classic controls. However, my friend can't seem to play it without a wiimote/nunchuck, even if it is harder to pull of combos. Preference is the key word here.

I think what Nintendo tried to do was to make it so that you actually "felt" you were in the game itself. Of course, there's no possible way to do that as of now, but you have to admit it's a pretty good concept. I'm a sucker for interesting things, even if they are impractical in and of themselves.

I'm using the wireless XBOX 360 controllers. It sucks to have to change the batteries. But for Wii, I actually have a wiimote charging stand, so the batteries are not really an issue. However, I suppose not everyone uses that..



NEW REASON TO HATE WIIMOTES. THEY NEED BATTERIES. That was the main reason I ditched my old mouse/keyboard. Wireless = bad. I dont like wireless controllers, guitars for guitar hero, mice or keyboards. Batteries = bad. Wired = better, not only that, its more responsive because it has less interference from other radio waves.

Wow...that was point 1 :s

I will have to agree with everything you said here. Batteries are bad.



Ok, I forgot about FPS controlling. Played cod5 on wii, played re4 on wii and played archery on M and S at olympic games, and I see people struggling to get the bullseye where they want it. Its unresponsive, you want it to go left and it goes to far, you move it right and it goes left more. It just doesn't want to work.

Back to the other point now.

Personally, I do not think this is a wiimote issue. I've played that before, and I just assumed it was normal. I'm of the opinion that it's that way on purpose for it to be more challenging. If you can hit the bullseye whenever you want, it wouldn't be much fun at all. Everyone would get the same scores.

Whew that made my post look long :sunny:

DeltaBurnt
10-11-2009, 11:09 AM
1. Graphics aren't everything. To prove my point, imagine playing a game that looks as clear as real life, but the library is so small you can count it on one hand. How popular would that system be? Not so much. That said, if there is a system with 8 bit graphics released in this day and age, and has a library of over a thousand excellent games, that system won't be as popular either, as the gamer won't enjoy the experience. The key is to have a balance, and that is what the Wii has. Sure, it doesn't have the best graphics, but what it has gets the job done. Look at games such as Super Mario Galaxy and Kolona - absolutely beautiful. Graphics doesn't rely so much in the system as the game - the system has the capacity, but the developers have to take full advantage of it. The Wii's slight lack of graphics isn't always entirely the fault of the Wii, rather that the developers choose not to take full advantage of it.


Most new games have both graphics, gameplay and playability. Wii doesn't. That was easy....

How can you say the wii doesn't have gameplay or playability? Most games gives you atleast 4 different controller options that are all easy to use an unique (most of the time anyways). And with gameplay...seriously have you not been paying attention during the whole debate? The wii has so many games that are so jam packed with fun time passing gameplay.

Also to further my debate on graphics, if you haven't seen Muramasa the Demon Blade for the wii you should watch some videos on it. Most Destructoid reviewers who ussually bash the wii are calling it a graphical masterpiece.






2. You can't deny the Wii's library of games. It is immense, and it has something for almost everyone. Sure, it might not have as many M rated games as the PS3 or Xbox360, but think of the Wii's audience. It is targeted to people ages 5-15 and 30-up. It can also be targeted to 16-29 year olds not looking for the best FPS game out there. The Wii is just meant to be fun. Games such as Super Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart Wii, and Super Smash Brothers Brawl all prove this, and all were huge successes. And, the Wii is a party console as well, proven also by it's name - when asked to explain the name of its newest console, Nintendo responded: "The two i's are supposed to represent two people standing and playing togeather." That is completely opposite of the DSi, which only has one "i", signifying its emphasis that the DSi is a personal console. Back to the gaming library - if one is looking for mature titles on the Wii, you can find Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, Madworld, and a few others, but i'm too tired to list them now...


Yes I can, and I will, in very few words. 1000 crappy games or 10 good games. I'd take the latter. Wii has lots of crappy games, but fewer good ones. Other consoles? Lots of good games, few crappy ones.

Wow, I only had to read the first line to refute that entire paragraph.

Btw, ratings mean crap all.

1. Just because there's alot of shovelware on a console doesn't mean crap. It just means that console is more pointed to casual gamers which are more likely to buy games like that. Also the Wii has much much more than 10 good games.

2. Your 2nd line again shows that you've not been paying full attention to the debate at all. No wonder most of your responses make me go "What?!".

PharaohsVizier
10-11-2009, 06:15 PM
The controller issue (let's not begin with batteries, that's a pretty cheap shot since most of us use rechargeables anyways, whether it is the battery packs with the docking stations or the rechargeable AA batteries), is not a good point to bring up. It's true Mario Kart's controls blow and controllers are preferable in that game, but that's because the game was bad overall. I can't believe you can say that the Wii remote is more complex than a joypad. For most people it is the opposite, you are simply used to a controller. As a gamer, you have been handling with joypads, buttons, etc all your life, but can you honestly believe your grandma would prefer a joypad with like 10 buttons or the Wii controls?

Now there are genres that don't work with the Wii, and I believe that is the reason the Wii remote has buttons, there is the classic controller, etc. The motion controls don't work for everything. Miaro Kart SHOULD have worked, but they really screwed up that game. Super Smash Brothers is another one, there are lots of people that prefer the Wii remote over the joypad actually. And I think Mario Party is one of the best examples there is. I don't think the game would be even close to as fun if you had a gamepad. Rayman Raving Rabbids had you waving the Wii remote all over the place and it was quite honestly, awesome.

Complexity occurs with the Wii remote when they try to tack the controls onto a game not suited to it. For gamers, they have had generations and generations of games that are completely based on buttons and a joystick. Hence, there is a whole lot of demand for these games. For the Wii simply to demolish these franchises is stupid. It will take a few generations before the Wii will only make games suited for their own system, but for now, they run in a fine line, producing quality games that use the Wii remote well and producing fan favorites that don't use the Wii remote quite so well. The fact that Sony has their new motion control and XBOX has natal already suggests that things are moving towards that direction.

With FPS, the controls are really quite dependent on how well you set your system up. I was rather shocked seeing how many Wii consoles were just set up improperly. They jam their motion bars wherever they can, they haven't calibrated, etc. The controls also have to be set up so you are standing/sitting/lying in the same or similar to the place where you calibrated, set up, etc. It is quite important that this is done right or else the controls will be exactly as you described. Now I won't go so far as to say the controls are perfect, but they are fairly accurate, at least for Resident Eveil 4, I haven't tries Mario and Sonic. I'm quite curious how Wii Motion Plus adds into this, apparently the controls are MUCH slicker, though I can't exactly say I've tried it extensively.

As for complexity vs simplicity, the issue is again preference. To get into a more complex game, you have to sink a lot of time into it. If you go out and play Call of Duty 4 again for the first time, it would take quite a bit of time to get used to the controls. Of course, assuming you haven't played other FPS games. Now a true gamer has this time to spare, has the time to invest into this. But for a casual player, they just want to have some fun, and fast. Are they likely to invest time into learning the controls? I was trying to get into Supreme Commander a month or so back, and the game was just too much for me. It sounded awesome from the description, hyper-realistic, complex, everything plays a part in the game, etc, but I mean it was just over the top and would take too much time for me to learn to play before I enjoyed it. I sat there for a day trying to get through the tutorials. It was exam time, so I opted to play out Professor Layton instead, nice and quick to learn, simple to play, etc. Sure Supreme Commander may be the superior game if I had invested the time into it, but you have to ask yourself if it is worth it.

ChocoMint
10-11-2009, 06:49 PM
Lordy, I think this thread is the most in-depth conversation DSDatabase has ever seen! That said, I fail at making points, so continue on, and I'll just watch... lol

Shadz
10-11-2009, 09:33 PM
How can you say the wii doesn't have gameplay or playability? Most games gives you atleast 4 different controller options that are all easy to use an unique (most of the time anyways). And with gameplay...seriously have you not been paying attention during the whole debate? The wii has so many games that are so jam packed with fun time passing gameplay.

More controller options isn't gameplay or playability for that matter. Its just...more configuration options. By playability I mean how much you can play it. Like, some games are good for an hour or so before you get bored of it (Guitar Hero), but good again later, whereas some games are good to play non-stop for 10 hours. Most of these games, are online multiplayer, something the wii doesn't utilise fully, and games with this, generally lag...and don't say they don't. Because I know a few people with great connections and they get lag, even playing when they are a few houses away from each pother.



Also to further my debate on graphics, if you haven't seen Muramasa the Demon Blade for the wii you should watch some videos on it. Most Destructoid reviewers who ussually bash the wii are calling it a graphical masterpiece.


Cbf looking it up, but they aren't doing enough.



2. You can't deny the Wii's library of games. It is immense



1. Just because there's alot of shovelware on a console doesn't mean crap. It just means that console is more pointed to casual gamers which are more likely to buy games like that. Also the Wii has much much more than 10 good games.


Thanks for destroying your own argument. I said they had tonnes of games, not that many good, and you support me by saying they have 'alot' of shovelware.

Thats your arguments done...know the real argument...Pharaoh...



But can you honestly believe your grandma would prefer a joypad with like 10 buttons or the Wii controls?


For majority of my family they would look at the wiimote and think...wow this is weird, and perhaps the elderly aren't mobile enough for some games. I really think some elderly might enjoy wii-sports but lack the mobility for them. E.g. tennis, I cant see an 80 year old moving around like that...can you honestly?




Now there are genres that don't work with the Wii, and I believe that is the reason the Wii remote has buttons, there is the classic controller, etc. The motion controls don't work for everything. Miaro Kart SHOULD have worked, but they really screwed up that game. Super Smash Brothers is another one, there are lots of people that prefer the Wii remote over the joypad actually. And I think Mario Party is one of the best examples there is. I don't think the game would be even close to as fun if you had a gamepad. Rayman Raving Rabbids had you waving the Wii remote all over the place and it was quite honestly, awesome.


I preferred mario party on the N64, even some aspects of the DS version I dislike, particularly using the mic. What if im on a train or something, I dont wanna look like a tard and start screaming into the mic. I think their is the option to turn those games off...but what if im midway through a map??

I still think motion sensitivity is too complex...KISS...Keep it simple, stupid...best said for this example. Their is no need to make it difficult than it already is. Keeping it to controller/joypad as you call it, means that people who have played the genre or series before can pretty much pick up on the game instantly.




Complexity occurs with the Wii remote when they try to tack the controls onto a game not suited to it. For gamers, they have had generations and generations of games that are completely based on buttons and a joystick. Hence, there is a whole lot of demand for these games. For the Wii simply to demolish these franchises is stupid. It will take a few generations before the Wii will only make games suited for their own system, but for now, they run in a fine line, producing quality games that use the Wii remote well and producing fan favorites that don't use the Wii remote quite so well. The fact that Sony has their new motion control and XBOX has natal already suggests that things are moving towards that direction.


Pretty much read above.

ALTHOUGH I have found one good use for a wiimote. A teacher at our school bought a wiimote and a projector and a special light pen, and made a home-made smartboard. Using the wiimote for the 'directional' aspect, the projector for the image and the pen as the clicker. That's about it...other console controllers have other uses, look at X360, there are many PC gamers who prefer the Controller for games like devil may cry.




I haven't tries Mario and Sonic. I'm quite curious how Wii Motion Plus adds into this, apparently the controls are MUCH slicker, though I can't exactly say I've tried it extensively.


Horribly horribly jittery. If you move either arm it just goes all over the place. I tapped my friend on the shoulder and it completely through off their aim.




As for complexity vs simplicity, the issue is again preference. To get into a more complex game, you have to sink a lot of time into it. If you go out and play Call of Duty 4 again for the first time, it would take quite a bit of time to get used to the controls. Of course, assuming you haven't played other FPS games. Now a true gamer has this time to spare, has the time to invest into this. But for a casual player, they just want to have some fun, and fast. Are they likely to invest time into learning the controls? I was trying to get into Supreme Commander a month or so back, and the game was just too much for me. It sounded awesome from the description, hyper-realistic, complex, everything plays a part in the game, etc, but I mean it was just over the top and would take too much time for me to learn to play before I enjoyed it. I sat there for a day trying to get through the tutorials. It was exam time, so I opted to play out Professor Layton instead, nice and quick to learn, simple to play, etc. Sure Supreme Commander may be the superior game if I had invested the time into it, but you have to ask yourself if it is worth it.

What does this have to do with the wii? Nevertheless, I will take the bait. I'm naturally half-decent at RTS games, although having never played Supreme Commander, i seem to take to RTS games quite quickly, as such, Lord of the rings: Battle for middle earth, I got good fast. Professor layton is easy, but that is because you really don't need many buttons just a stylus. A game with a higher learning curve would be Warcraft 3: TFT, as such, DotA or Heroes of Newerth. The learning curve is ridiculous for these games, but once you get into it, your addicted to the max. Even after my first game, I craved more and more and more. Why? Graphics, gameplay, replayability, multiplayer. All key elements of a game.


Dayum, that took a long time. Sorry for the buggered up quotes earlier on, cbf fixing. Have fun.

Chocomint, useless statement was useless. Do something useful and support me. I'm arguing against about 5 different people here. And I'm surprised at how long this has been going, especially since I haven't lost....yet...

PharaohsVizier
10-11-2009, 11:11 PM
Okay, I don't really like quoting posts, so bear with me here:

1. Well I suppose grandma was a bit of a bad example, not even. I didn't picture an old decrepit one, but I mean at least for my family they seem a little more open to playing the Wii, I suppose it is the marketing towards families, but it is easier to grasp for them, psychological or not. Wii sports wasn't particularly vigorous, you can sort of swag along with very little energy, it wasn't 100% accurate and that makes it a little more open for the elderly. But I mean an 80 year old isn't really quite going to pick up a gamepad either. :P

2. "Keeping it to controller/joypad as you call it, means that people who have played the genre or series before can pretty much pick up on the game instantly."

You see, that's exactly the problem. I made it pretty clear throughout this argument that I own a PS3 and ditched my Wii. We are gamers, we are already used to gamepads, keyboards, etc, so it is only natural that they seem easy to pick up for me and you. For this generation, and perhaps even the next or the one after, the Wii or the motion controls will take a lot of heat from people who are used to the old style of gameplay. People don't like radical changes. Afterall, there were people who weren't particularly fond of the dual analog system early on (me included). It will take some time for the Wii to prove itself, to perfect its controls and so on. I think we can both agree that the controls on the Wii aren't perfect. Early adopters will get the benefit of using motion control but also have to suffer some of the imperfections. I'm pretty sure if the Wii remote was absolutely accurate, you'd be all over it. And that is why I think the Wii is a good console, not perfect, not extraordinary, but not bad or horrible either.

Also, I think I'm going to argue the very basis of that argument as well. The controls are sometimes hazy, but they are much easier to pick up on. Just because the aiming isn't precise, it doesn't mean the controls are hard to pick up on. It is as easy as picking up the remote, point and shoot. Just no precision :P

3. Heh, Supreme Commander annoyed me because it was just too much, too fast. The tutorial will take days to finish. I consider myself a decent RTS player, I picked up on Starcraft, Warcraft, Battle For Middle Earth, etc. I can say for a fact that Supreme Commander's learning curve is nothing like DotA or Heroes of Newerth. DotA's learning curve isn't nearly as steep as Supreme Commander. Essentially the game aims to be as realistic as possible. The engine makes it so all projectiles, missiles, bullets, etc to be dodge-able, so if you can micro enough, you can sort of weave through the bullets. You can go land, air, sea right from the start of the game, if you decide to shoot down a ship, your soldiers have to watch out because the broken aircraft can still crash into the ground, etc. It was a lot to worry about, and a lot thrown at you.

Although enough about that (I don't even know why I put that in there, but I thought the game sounded pretty cool when it claimed to do all that, and it was, but just too hard, too much, etc), I completely agree with where you are coming from. Games with graphics, gameplay, replayability, multiplayer, whatever are obviously good, and I wouldn't be much of a rational person if I said otherwise, but my point is still that you have to invest time. Learning curves suck, and it is all okay for me and you because we've played games in similar genres, how long would it take for a newcomer? I picked up Heroes of Newerth rather fast because I came directly from DotA, but someone who didn't would be getting yelled at for days, weeks, even months before they get good. Getting addicted to DotA or HoN requires quite a bit of commitment, something not everyone can do. I don't think I need to explain, starting off DotA can be one of the hardest things to do. Look at it this way, it was easy for you and me to get into gaming, I had a controller in my hand pressing only the A button to jump and the right button to move forward for Mario, but where do people start now? As time passes, gaming is more and more inaccessible. It's true there will always be 10 year olds with a lot of time on their hands, but gaming wasn't meant to be exclusive, at least I hope it isn't. It does a world of good to open the door for newer gamers. For me, more people = more fun. And sometimes you have to make sacrifices for that. Sure I love Call of Duty 4, but I have to make some sacrifices and play CS 1.6 with my friends with crappy computers. It is technically the inferior game, but its the people you are with that makes it fun. (I'd like to point out that me_too_lazy is absolutely addicted to Maplestory, which I think is quite sad, but his point is that the game is good because everyone he knows plays it, and it is the interactions that make a difference.)

DeltaBurnt
10-11-2009, 11:54 PM
Shadz man you're twisting my words around and it's annoying. Me saying that a game has alot of shovelware means nothing. Who the hell didn't know there's shovelware on the wii!? It honestly does not matter if a console has shovelware as long as there's a nice big library of good games, and there is! There's tons of Wii games I love, games I wish I could go back in time and play them for the first time over again. There's also so many good Wii games I have yet to get that I really really want!

With the playability and controller options...it's not really more configuration it's not complicated at all. All you do it plugin the controller you want and just use that one. There's no selection of options or anything. Also not all gameplay boils down to multiplayer and online. I've been hooked by many many games on the wii that are singleplayer.

Online...now I'm not going to deny it lags but when it does it's not even that bad or long. I have an OK connection and it's a wireless one I share with like 3 other people and I maybe get lag once out of 5 matches.

Shadz
10-12-2009, 12:31 AM
PV: I never played DotA before moving to HoN. I copped that abuse, and now, 180 games in, my KDR is 0.6:1...my assists have finally just gotten above my deaths, but my kills are still about half of that.

I think games with a steeper (but not overly difficult) learning curve are good, it provides competition and competitive gaming. One example, is the hl2 mod, Smashball. Dam that game was hard to learn, but it was fun, it was competitive and once you got the hang of it, you improved. Some games on wii (bringing it back to this) don't have this element of a challenge, sure, its either really easy or really hard, or in between, but it doesn't have that learning curve where you feel exceptionally proud at doing something. Unless in SSBB and you do that 15 minute challenge...but I do suppose thats the 'really hard' aspect...

Deltaburnt: Don't blame me for your quote. I never 'twisted' anything, I hit the big button that says quote twice. If what you said meant nothing, why say it?

Online: back to this, its horrible. I've tried it (on my cousins wii) at my house with a 20k connection, to my friend who lives nearby who has a 15k connection. We lagged like shit. Tried at a friends place, he has a 20k connection, to his neighbour, who has the same plan. Lagged like nuts in each game.

I'm starting to notice that your 'points' aren't refuting what I say, more dancing over the top of it, leaning towards agreeing and stating something else, not really disagreeing or disproving much.

Enjoy your day :D

benjaminlibl
10-12-2009, 12:39 AM
Please chill, guys. No sense getting worked up about something like this.

PharaohsVizier
10-12-2009, 12:43 AM
You didn't play DotA before HoN? Oh maybe that's a good thing, HoN's community is a little nicer on noobs, they have the recommended items thing, etc. I was trying to get a few friends started on DotA, and it was actually pretty sad. The amount of smack talk, at least on US West is horrendous, and noobs get flamed like there is no tomorrow. Not to mention the game's pretty hard to pick up in the first place.

Now here's the part where I disagree. Steep learning curve doesn't always mean challenging. Yes it is true in many cases, but I think there can be competition, high levels of it, in however simple a game. Again, I'm going to point out Tetris (I love that game), several blocks, variable speed, could be extremely challenging. Competition exists, I think the games me and me_too_lazy play from time to time are easily the most intense games I've played. We are almost always neck to neck, going for 5 to 10 minutes every time. It boils down to who screws up first. Beating him gives me a great feeling :P

If you were referring to me about dancing on top of your points, I run the risk of looking like a complete fanboy if I make very solid points and refute completely. Afterall, I acknowledge that the Wii has many flaws, and to say that the Wii is the greatest or that the remote is completely intuitive would be a blatant lie. :P I'm not trying to defend the Wii as the greatest console ever or a revolution, but I am simply trying to say that it is not a bad console, and it is one that isn't aimed specifically for you or me, which is why it doesn't appeal to you or me.

Shadz
10-12-2009, 01:03 AM
Makes sense, I think this discussion is closing, walls of text are decreasing in size now.

Yeah, with HoN I got a bit of abuse early on, but I picked it up reasonably fast, I started...late August, and now maintain pretty much a 1:1 ratio, I sometimes play on a different account, which is 1:1...But now, I do see some people getting flamed/kicked for feeding, but they are just learning. I give them a chance because I was in that situation a few weeks ago, I only kick people who are abusive...DotA learning was horrible, the HoN keys are so much better....QWER for abilities > random keys from the name...

This thread is now titled: HoN or DotA, whats your choice?

PharaohsVizier
10-12-2009, 01:11 AM
That would be an interesting discussion, I'd go with DotA personally. QWER doesn't make sense to me after like 2 years of playing DotA.

DeltaBurnt
10-12-2009, 01:57 AM
PV: I never played DotA before moving to HoN. I copped that abuse, and now, 180 games in, my KDR is 0.6:1...my assists have finally just gotten above my deaths, but my kills are still about half of that.

I think games with a steeper (but not overly difficult) learning curve are good, it provides competition and competitive gaming. One example, is the hl2 mod, Smashball. Dam that game was hard to learn, but it was fun, it was competitive and once you got the hang of it, you improved. Some games on wii (bringing it back to this) don't have this element of a challenge, sure, its either really easy or really hard, or in between, but it doesn't have that learning curve where you feel exceptionally proud at doing something. Unless in SSBB and you do that 15 minute challenge...but I do suppose thats the 'really hard' aspect...

Deltaburnt: Don't blame me for your quote. I never 'twisted' anything, I hit the big button that says quote twice. If what you said meant nothing, why say it?

Online: back to this, its horrible. I've tried it (on my cousins wii) at my house with a 20k connection, to my friend who lives nearby who has a 15k connection. We lagged like shit. Tried at a friends place, he has a 20k connection, to his neighbour, who has the same plan. Lagged like nuts in each game.

I'm starting to notice that your 'points' aren't refuting what I say, more dancing over the top of it, leaning towards agreeing and stating something else, not really disagreeing or disproving much.

Enjoy your day :D

You do realize 15k and 20k connections are really bad right?

Shadz
10-12-2009, 02:01 AM
In Australia, that's almost the best you can get...and even that's at ridiculous prices...

Zieg30CT
10-31-2009, 04:31 PM
I say they got it just right when they created the SNES. It had some of the best games I ever played and when I was growing up it held a place very close to my heart.

stab244
11-03-2009, 01:50 PM
GBA because it was a decently small gaming system.

Shadz
11-03-2009, 04:06 PM
I say they got it just right when they created the SNES. It had some of the best games I ever played and when I was growing up it held a place very close to my heart.

This man wins 1 internets.

globsubamas
02-19-2010, 12:53 AM
According to me SNES is the best for all time. Compare to GBA it's cheaper as well as easy to configure + playing nice games over it.
I am enjoying ma self with SNES.

FEFL
03-01-2010, 01:06 AM
N64. Smash Bros., Conker's Bad Fur Day, 007, Mario, etc. are awesome.

KingVamp
03-09-2010, 09:47 PM
wii I actually like the game/controller designs and it has nice games on it too.